Mosah Fernandez Goodman | Top Talent Advocates - Career Advocacy for Executive Leaders and Lawyers
Mosah Fernandez Goodman | Top Talent Advocates: Career Advocacy for Executive Leaders and Lawyers
Mosah Fernandez Goodman, President and Founder of Top Talent Advocates, is passionate about helping people and businesses maximize their opportunities. In this episode, Mosah details the process of career advocacy for executive leaders and lawyers. No question goes unanswered during this in-depth look at the professional tools needed to land your next role: resume revisions, advocacy and coaching, interview prep, closing and compensation. He shares how his personal experience of not knowing what he was leaving on the table in terms of opportunities unpursued or in terms of compensation early in his career that led to his niche methodology.
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Hiring Insights Mosah Goodman
[00:00:00] Richard: Welcome to hiring insights. The podcast that provides insight into the executive hiring process and experience. Whether you are a job seeker, a people leader, a recruiter, an executive coach or simply interested in talent, there is something here for you on Hiring Insights. Today's episode is presented by Top Talent Advocates, where we advocate for executive and legal talent.
You can learn more about Top Talent Advocates, listen to other episodes and hire great talent by visiting www.toptalentadvocates.com and clicking on podcast. Now here's your host for hiring insights, Mosah Fernandez Goodman.
[00:00:45] Lindsay: Welcome and thank you for joining us. I'm Lindsay Hofbauer, the business development associate for Top Talent Advocates. And today it is my pleasure to introduce and interview, President of Top Talent Advocates, Mosah Goodman.
[00:00:59] Mosah: Thanks so much, Lindsay.
[00:01:00] Lindsay: You are very welcome. Tell us a little bit
about yourself Mosah.
[00:01:05] Mosah: So originally I'm from New York City. I grew up on the east coast and went to Wesleyan university for my undergraduate studies. I was actually a theater major. So doing this podcast is an interesting sort of throwback to the days of performance. Grew up in New York, went to Wesleyan and then spent a few years doing fundraising work. Working with lots of people to help make contributions to the university. And then I went to law school and business school at the University of Iowa. And from there I spent probably a decade or so in a series of jobs, financial services primarily. I worked for Gavilon, which was a spin out from ConAgra foods, it’s a private equity, backed, spin out.
And there, I ran a number of projects for the executive team, held an in-house counsel legal role. From there I went to work for a Berkshire backed insurance company. So I spent about seven, eight years in financial services and then made a move into the nonprofit world. And five to six years ago, I launched Top Talent Advocates with the aim of helping people find newer and better career options.
Live in Omaha, Nebraska, but I've lived in and worked on both coasts and just love what I do.
[00:02:19] Lindsay: What was happening
in your career or what were you seeing in the job market that triggered you to think there's a need for something such as Top Talent?
[00:02:29] Mosah: That's a great question, too. You know, Top Talent Advocates started as a hobby. I enjoy the hunt for a job. I'll tell the listeners a little bit of a story here. In my first year in law school, I took two weeks off from law school to apply to summer jobs.
And as everyone knows that first semester in law school is sort of make or break. Well, I took the approach that the whole point of going to law school is to become a lawyer and find a job. And so I wanted to ensure that I had an employment opportunity in the summer. And so I took two weeks off and I applied to 612 jobs in that two week period.
I did that through not online applications, that wasn't the thing at that time of the hiring cycle. So I wrote 612 cover letters, somewhat templated, but did a mail drop. I explicitly remember walking across the parking lot in the post office and seeing cover letters kind of blow out of my stack because there was a gush of win. Because I was carrying 612 of them and they just sort of flew across the parking lot.
But probably since that time, I would say that I became obsessed with pursuing and maximizing one's career opportunities. I didn't know at that time that it was going to become a business, but that's where I sort of saw the need. Who else could help me do this more efficiently and more effectively. And so working with people on a
friendly basis, and just helping people think through their job search was something that I'd always done. It was my wife who said, you know, this might be a service that people could really value and really engage in because I spent during my career transitions a lot of time calling recruiters, I spent a lot of time doing online applications. I spent a lot of time calling people.
And I would say that that was successful to a point, but it certainly wasn't efficient. And I did not know what I was leaving on the table in terms of opportunities unpursued or in terms of compensation, unrealized or unrecognized. And so it was born out of that sort of personal experience and seeing results for the people that I was helping informally that I put together some process and started doing this more formally. And that's how Top Talent Advocates was born. .
[00:04:55] Lindsay:What is Top Talent Advocates and what do you do?
[00:04:59] Mosah: Sure, that's a great question. I describe it to people as essentially being a sports agent for non-athletes. Not saying my clients aren't athletic. Many of them play recreational basketball or work out on their Peloton, but it's a model of a sports agent designed to help executives and people who are on their way to being executives, help manage their career and find newer and better opportunities.
Too often people's career management is not top of mind or it's an afterthought. And with a little bit of concentration, a little bit of planning and a whole lot of networking, I think people can really maximize their opportunities and, and that's what we do. So we're not a recruiting firm. We are not a life coach.
What we do is as, you know, help people find new and better opportunities and maximize their income and really maximize their professional development.
[00:05:54] Lindsay: How long has
Top Talent been operating and what are some of its successes?
[00:05:59] Mosah: So Top Talent Advocates was started in 2017. So we've been in business now, we're starting our sixth year and the successes that we've seen really vary. I've worked with folks intensively-three days to help them interview prep for an executive level position that they've secured.
And that took them from being unemployed to right back in the saddle, where they had been securing seven figure opportunities. Not that I necessarily brought them that opportunity in 36 hours, but we've been as effective as bringing people to the right job in a matter of weeks. All the way through to helping people over a much more comprehensive and elongated search.
So we've helped people get back into jobs really quickly. We've helped people sort through and make sure that they're making a move for the right reasons. Sometimes people overestimate or underestimate their marketability. And we make sure that our clients are grounded. Our goal is not just to make a transaction. Our goal is to make sure that people are successful in accomplishing their goals. And so we've helped CFOs secure opportunities at startups when they'd been part of larger organizations that didn't have the same upside or sort of vibrance to the role that they had wanted. We've helped CHROs secure their own jobs, really marketing them with an eye towards any number of different specialties, whether it be diversity, equity, and inclusion, or in highly competitive roles that focus on a lot of comp strategy. That's some of the work that we've done with CHROs. We've also worked with a ton of attorneys, you know, folks who are general councils, lower level in-house counsel, but typically headed towards general counsel type candidates.
We also work with compliance folks and we work with a lot of law firm partners as well. The legal market, particularly right now in 21/ 22 is incredibly hot and there's a lot of transition and transaction going on as far as talent. And we work with business development folks, and we work with other senior executives in organizations.
So we've had some really great successes in helping people get back to work. And we've also had some really great successes in helping people maximize their earning potential. We always look to make sure that people are making as much money as possible. Assuming that's something that's important to them.
And I've yet to find a candidate who doesn't value their earning potential. And so it's not uncommon for us to see 20, 30, 40% increases when someone makes a move and particularly much larger variable comp.
[00:08:44] Lindsay: Where does Top Talent Advocates operate out of, and what locations do you serve?
[00:08:49] Mosah: If you were to throw a dart in the middle of the country, we're in Omaha, Nebraska. But having worked and lived on both coasts and having great networks in really every major market, we're still working on Phoenix, that's one area that we don't have as strong a connection in, but really every other major market in the US is where we operate.
That tends to be where there's the greatest job movement. And that tends to be where a lot of the higher salaries are. So if you look on our website, you'll see a map that shows the locations in which we're placing candidates and working with candidates. And it's New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, Miami, Seattle, Los Angeles, San Francisco, major cities in Texas- Dallas, Houston, Austin.
And then here in the Midwest as well, Minneapolis, St. Louis, Kansas City, Atlanta is a really strong market and a lot of people want to move to Tennessee these days. So Nashville and Memphis are certainly up and coming markets as well.
[00:09:49] Lindsay: You mentioned earlier, the great resignation, everybody's talking about it. What do you see for 2022 in terms of maybe a new hiring market or changes to the hiring market? Based on what we've seen this past year,
[00:10:06] Mosah: I think the volume of transactions, the volume with which people will be moving and seeking new opportunities will continue at least for the first half of the year.
What I don't expect is some great upheaval at the level that most of our clients tend to be. The great resignation-the largest volume of those folks tend to be of a certain age and a certain skill level. So we're not seeing it in the director level and above market, the same volume that you might be seeing for more entry level or mid-level manager positions.
It's simply because those roles are harder to come by. And once people get them they tend to stay there until there's another opportunity that's of equal value to them. So my prediction, and I don't have a crystal ball, is that we'll continue to see high volume level and transactions, but not necessarily at the executive level.
[00:11:04] Lindsay: What tools or services do you provide to help them maximize their career opportunities?
[00:11:10] Mosah: Sure. Great question. We,at the risk of sounding cliche, break the work down into three phases.
The first phase is a pretty well established means of providing services to professionals. We help people develop their tools and then we help them market themselves. And then we help them negotiate compensation and onboard to their new role. So the first portion of that is the tool development, as I mentioned, is really helping people with their resume, helping people with their LinkedIn profile, helping people with cover letters for certain applications, those are still required.
And then in many cases, helping people develop a pitch deck and a job search strategy. That's gonna be highly effective for them to maximize the time that they spend searching for a job. And there are a lot of people that do that work. That's not uncommon. The second phase of what we do in marketing people really is
our first differentiating factor, which is that we actually take our clients out to market. Meaning we leverage our network. We help them maximize their network and we really take the time and energy to market them as we would a high-quality. They are some of the most successful and some of the most refined and well-educated and experienced people in the country.
And we want to make sure that everyone who's reviewing their resume and reviewing their candidate pool knows that our clients really are top talent, at the risk of sounding cliche. So we go out and we market them and we help them in ways that are creative and ways that are, I would say in some cases, just very traditional.
And the third phase of work, what we do for people is help them prepare for interviews. If you spend all the time, money, and energy to get your resume and LinkedIn profile and go through the marketing phase and the interview isn't nailed-if we don't actually do what the whole point of the job search is, which is to get the job, we're really letting ourselves and our clients down.
And so we spend lots of time with our clients preparing for interviews, again, drawing from that theater experience. Going through mock interview process going through and really understanding what a hiring manager is looking for and what the market conditions are that would enable someone to leverage that opportunity and secure it. That's what we spend a lot of time doing.
And then compensation analysis. At the level of employment that our clients are seeking, whether it be a few hundred thousand up to several million dollars, leaving a little bit of money on the table or a lower percentage of money on the table is signicificant. Nobody wants to leave fifty to a hundred thousand dollars on the table.
And so we have access to both public, as anyone would, and then a lot of nonpublic data through our vendors who provide that insight and through our experience and pulse of the market to really make sure that our clients can either confirm that the offers they're receiving are within market or that they know what to ask for and how to ask for it, to maximize their earnings.
[00:14:08] Lindsay: If I am an executive, at what point in my career, should I consider utilizing Top Talent Advocates?
[00:14:15] Mosah: The right time to consider using Top Talent Advocates is when you become curious about what else might be out there. And that thought process happens when you feel that you may not be maximizing your earning potential. When you're starting to plateau, whatever that means for you and your particular role. If you're going through a merger or an acquisition, particularly if your organization is being acquired, or if you just want to know that your value in the market is being maximized, those are the types of situations where our clients say, I want to explore new opportunities. All the way to people who have been let go, or who have been downsized and need to find a job.
We work with people at all phases of their job search. So those are the types of situations that our clients are in and facing that we really add value.
[00:15:13] Lindsay:How much do your services cost?
[00:15:15] Mosah: Every engagement is customized to the client. So anywhere from a few thousand dollars to significantly higher. We work with folks in a way that's conducive to a win-win engagement.
So we don't have packaged pricing. Every client is unique. We take that approach. We don't have a cookie cutter or a formula, and so we don't price our services without knowing the needs and scope of work for each.
[00:15:46] Lindsay: So most of what you do focuses on executive level talent are any of your services for entry-level or mid-level talent?
[00:15:57] Mosah: So we tend to operate at the director level and above. That tends to be the population of folks who both have the interest and the capacity to make an investment in their search, because we're never paid by an employer.
We don't fee split with recruiters. We are paid by our clients and everything that we do is in their best interest. And so that just tends to be where people want to make their investment. We will work with anyone. We've worked with college students. We've worked with trailing and relocating spouses who might just be looking to get back into the workforce, particularly after the pandemic. And so we will work with anyone. It just tends to be that our focus and our greatest customer base is that director level and above people who are either at, or headed towards being an executive in a larger organization, mid-sized organization. The size of the company or organization doesn't really matter.
It's more so the level and willingness to make that investment. That's where the jobs are fewer and far between, right? We talk about the great resignation. You don't see as many executives in director level positions, resigning, or necessarily even moving. They're just less of those available. And so we really think that we add the most value at that high end market
[00:17:15] Lindsay: What hurdles do you help clients overcome in your process?
[00:17:19] Mosah: So we help clients overcome a lot of obstacles in their search. It really does depend on the particular client, but when someone comes to us, they often come with questions. They often come with apprehensions. They often come with frustrations, from a search that they've been going through on their own for quite some time.
And so it really depends on what they're seeing in their particular search. Oftentimes people don't know how to have a clear and concise pitch for themselves. They don't know how to accurately state their value, both to their potential employers and to their network. When you ask someone what kind of role they're looking for or what they're looking for or what they're looking to achieve-
It doesn't matter in my experience how much money you make, or how much experience you have, being very clear and understanding with what you want to achieve and how a hiring manager would gain value from your time, your talent and your expertise. Because that's really what the employment equation is. It's someone buying your time, talent, and expertise, and that's what they pay for.
Making sure that you can clearly articulate that. And what you know and want is really the biggest, most common obstacle I think people have when they're first getting started. And then it's the process and the inefficiency of so many executive searches. So often people think that recruiters are going to be knocking down their door to make sure that they acquire their talent.
And sometimes that's the case, but it is a job market and there's always competition. So making sure that you know how to access the right network in the right way is really the premise of our business, but something that people all too often overlook is the actual process and methodologies that need to be used in order to have an efficient job search.
And so sometimes people also just don't know where to get started. And sometimes time is the issue, right? Searching for a job can be and often is at least a part, if not full-time job in and of itself. And so leveraging a client's network, leveraging our network, helping people gain clarity in their search and understanding the efficiencies that we've learned from our work with clients over the years, and just having a good sense and pulse on the market.
Those are some of the obstacles that we help people overcome, but it really does depend on the client. And I can tell you some stories that will make you laugh, and maybe one or two that would make you cry.
[00:20:00] Lindsay: Clearly Top Talent Advocates is not a recruiting firm. You are not a recruiter. You provide advocacy services, but what is your relationship with recruiters?
[00:20:11] Mosah: Entirely symbiotic. We work really closely with recruiters because they have access to roles that our clients are interested in. And so most of the time when I get on the phone with a prospective client, I spend time explaining to people what we do and how we're not a recruiting firm.
That just happens to be where we spend a lot of time educating people about our services, because it is fairly niche. But we work really closely with recruiters in every industry. There are two sectors that we don't work in and that's medical, so we're not representing doctors or dentists, we're also not representing folks in military related industries.
Not because we're not appreciative of people's service, but we just don't have experience or expertise in that area. But whether it be technology, finance, human resources, we work with a ton of attorneys. Those are the areas, business development, that we know we can really add a lot of value. And so we make sure that we have relationships with key recruiters in those areas, in those markets.
It's not uncommon for us to help source talent for recruiters. We are a free source of talent for recruiters. And so if we can be good stewards of our client's interests and help recruiters find and place candidates, that's a win-win. And similarly recruiters don't necessarily have the time, energy or inclination because they're not on the coaching side of it.
They're a great referral source for us. It's not uncommon right, for a recruiter to source 10, 15, 20 highly qualified people for one opportunity. And so what do those 10, 15, 20 other people do? They move on to search on their own or work with another recruiter in the hopes of being that one. And I think that we've proven that we can be a good source of aid to those recruiters and enable them to refer their clients or those candidates to us and work with them to help them find their next option.
[00:22:15] Lindsay: Can you walk me through the process of being one of your clients from start to finish?
[00:22:19] Mosah: Absolutely. So every client engagement starts with a conversation and then a question, and we do it in that way because I need to understand what questions to be asking. Everything that we do, is the cliche term-bespoke. It’s customized to the individual that we're working with.
So when someone first engages us, I get on a video call with them and get to know what they're trying to achieve at a really high level. And everything is about goals. This isn't a service, Top Talent Advocates doesn't provide a service that is one that walks you through disc assessments and finding your personal passion.
There are a lot of executive coaches out there that do that, but everything that we do- and they do it really well and we work with a lot of them, but everything that we do is focused on the action of helping you get your next role and get the right role. And so we always want to define what that is. And once we have that initial intake call, I'll ask a series of probably 10 to 15 questions of a client that really helps them narrow the universe of what they're looking for and unlock new opportunities that they might not have thought of.
And so those 10 to 15 questions, the actual act of responding in written form and being concrete, and what we're trying to achieve, is really grounding for clients. So that's where we start. And every client that we work with goes through the process of reworking their tools. So all too often I'll get, in fact this is often the case, that the higher level an executive is the more work there is in my needs.
Simply because they've been recruited or invited to new opportunities and haven't put in the time and attention that's necessary to help refine the materials that are needed. And so those tools: the resume, LinkedIn profiles that are optimized for search engines and optimized for the algorithms that recruiters and hiring managers use, making sure that a cover letter, even though it may seem like an antiquated tool is actually utilized in the right way.
And then for a lot of entrepreneurial companies developing a pitch deck and in some cases, in many cases, a social media campaign for those folks. All of that work is done collaboratively. I make sure that I'm in touch with our clients at least on a weekly basis, if not more, to make sure that those tools are being developed to achieve the desired outcome and goals.
And it doesn't have to be that a client says this is the exact job title in the exact location that I want. But if we say, I don't know, it's going to be really hard and highly inefficient and less likely to be effective. And so we really spend a lot of time on the front end being intentional. And if you will, planful about how to proceed in the job search.
And so it's always about starting with that goal in mind and building a project plan as to how to get there. And then the tools support that search. So if we know what goal we're trying to achieve, it makes it so much easier for us to be able to market to achieve that goal. And so it's really following that project plan.
After the marketing process, we make sure that our clients are prepared for their interviews. And then we make sure that the compensation process and onboarding process is done smoothly and done in a way that enables them to maximize opportunities. I'll tell you a story about a one client that we've had and worked with.
The client happened to be an attorney who was looking to maximize their earnings and the market was pretty hot for their area of specialty. And so they did not want anyone, literally anyone knowing that they were looking, they even hesitated to tell their spouse that they were looking for a new opportunity for fear that someone might learn of it and put them in an awkward situation in their current role.
And so after going through the process of creating the tools, the marketing phase needed to be handled with absolute kid gloves to make sure that nobody learned that the client was looking. And so what I did was I took that person out to market by prospecting, right? I called the likely employers, the employers that would likely hire someone like this or that I knew had a need for someone like this.
And I placed them under a nondisclosure agreement and then had a very candid and direct conversation about this person's pedigree about the value they'd added in previous roles and about the qualities and skillset that this individual had. And as it turned out, when we were doing our prospecting, we're always reaching out to our network of hiring managers.
And we're also reaching out to new hiring managers, right? Because we don't know everyone in the world, but as it turned out, one of the hiring managers that we had a really solid relationship with with whom we'd referred other clients to in the past, trusted the brand, if you will, of Top Talent Advocates and understood that the types of people we've been working with were of the quality that we know they are.
So that leverage or the ability to ensure that someone knew we were working with a high quality candidate, opened up the doors for conversation at a C-suite level. And the person's compensation went from low to mid twos into the upper fives and the variable compensation became seven figures from what had been just a few hundred thousand dollars.
Now I know that's still a lot of money, but when that person realized the opportunity that was on the table and the relationships that we've been able to leverage and unlock based on our previous work with that company, it was a moment of celebration, right? The confetti sort of went off once they got that offer and it was all because we had built a relationship with a hiring manager who was excited to learn more about the types of people that we were representing, because they'd had such a good experience in the past.
We can maintain confidentiality or we can shout someone's names from the hilltops. It's all about what the client wants. And it's all about achieving that end goal.
[00:28:34] Lindsay: You touched on another current buzz term, knowing your worth. Can you elaborate on compensation negotiation services? And is that a standalone service that you offer
[00:28:49] Mosah: Compensation is something we take very seriously, but also really enjoy because it tends to be in the top two or three things that someone values in their work. Often it's their manager and the relationships with people that they have at work that's important.
And that gets to culture, making sure that they're the right fit for the role. Nothing's more frustrating or less rewarding than working in a role that you can't be successful at. And then compensation tends to be somewhere in that top three, for some it's number one,and for others it's lower than that, but rarely do I see compensation being a non-issue for folks.
And so we make sure that we spend the right amount of time and use the right resources to ensure that compensation, which is part art, part science, is at minimum within range. And what we try to do is we try to take a rational yet appropriately aggressive approach to our compensation. We want to make sure that clients don't leave money on the table, but that they're reasonable and rational in their expectations.
And so sometimes we have to talk to our clients about the change in market, right? Not every role is going to lead to a seven figure income. Some do, many do, but not everyone. And then there are other cases where we're working with clients whose income actually doubles simply because they hadn't tested the market in a while or might not have had the confidence or insight into understanding what opportunities are out there.
And so we're constantly having conversations with hiring managers and CHROs and making sure that we're staying abreast of what all salary surveys, which are often public, show in the market. And we'll reach back out to a client who we've worked with in the past and say-hey, not trying to pry, but just want to make sure you understand that the type of role you're in right now Is even more valuable than it had been when we last worked together. And so just as a courtesy, we want to make sure that you're seeing that correctly and we'll have those conversations because it's all about the relationship and provide that insight for free. But yes, absolutely. We'll work with people just on their compensation negotiation.
We'll work with people just on the resume. We'll work with people just on their job search strategy, just on their social media, it's a la cart or all inclusive. We're happy to even just do interview prep with folks, whatever someone needs to help them get that next role or optimize their compensation we will work them.
[00:31:14] Lindsay: I think that's a great place to wrap things up for the day,Mosah. Do you have any closing thoughts?
[00:31:20] Mosah: I want to make sure that people are happy and successful in managing their careers. That's really what drives me. That's why Top Talent Advocates was created and I get a rush, like literally a fist pump.and
you know, excited text messages when our clients secure the roles that they're seeking. And so making a difference in those people's lives, whether it be getting them back to work or helping them maximize their opportunities is a rush and a pleasure. So I just look forward to working with more people and helping them secure what they're looking for.
[00:31:55]Richard:Thank you for joining us on Hiring Insights. Remember,you can learn more about Top Talent Advocates and listen to other episodes by visiting toptalentadvocates.com and clicking on the podcast. You can also email us at tta@toptalentadvocates.com.
